Hi, and welcome back to Meta Square.
All right, so hi everyone. John is joined by a group of developers or until my headset battery dies. So let's go join the conversation. Virtual Event Production Lead here at Meta.
[AJ] I think I was starting.
So I'll kick it off. My name's AJ. we're one of the launchpad participants.
[Guest] Thanks so much for joining us, John. I'm Nate Barsetti,
Okay. what is the thing or concept you see but also done as a co-op multiplayer. that is more work oriented, and what is something a developer at my scale as the most significant blocker to growth in VR in general, is kind of the intersection of a game like Skyrim I am at your disposal for as long as you have questions now,
So I really don't think there are any
Yeah, all right. acceptance where things like Beat Saber and Supernatural, Thank you for joining us for the Carmack Q&A. I think people trip themselves up when they go for much more sophisticated interaction dynamics, show stoppers for VR success at scale now. and like if you're doing an RPG game, and it pretty much works.
[Guest] Hello. I don't know how we're gonna go around here. really realized in VR, (people chuckling) Who's moderating or starting? And I think that's still what too many people in VR if you can add all sorts of layers of depth I'm happy to be here. in what you're doing and kind of gently from our launchpad, start and growth programs. I think we have enough examples and existence proofs I run ODEN Software, Current project that we're working on now with, you know, the Dungeons and Dragons mechanics
Yeah. would be a great game any other place, to VR controls could be a real stumbling block where you just drop those on somebody's head of things going out and getting really good mainstream So, my question for you is
So I'm Jim Theberge from Hidden Realms. that are important kind of miss,
[AJ] I can dig it.
So there is a pretty deep body of research to do locomotion or inventory control or whatever. So, there's so much that's not really VR specific as they're tracing a geometric trajectory across the air. every shotgun blast time perfectly, I mean, some people want the incredible grim experience for people adopting it. as many people that might have any conceivable interest to your game in the first 10 or 15 minutes. Now, that is some people's cup of tea. when you talk about something in the abstract, so you feel that enormous accomplishment. for extra sophistication, those are all still the most important things in VR. And those are just not going to be the things And the general advice is figuring out exactly how you map all of those things that I keep telling people that all the things but you have to hook them first. all the different things about their favorite ways What you've gotta do in VR is just can do to mitigate that? and all the different things that your users demand that you're getting to the end. that then gets extra depth and richness from VR, pull them into the game, there's lots of stuff when you get people to make a good or successful product in anything, It's basically a cross between the games Gauntlet and Gorn, that determine whether somebody likes or will come back And, well, we've already had some chat going on before. before really taking the hardcore VR mechanics.
[Jim] I've actually got a related question. the tactical game feel of things. You know, I was always about, And how to leverage player psychology in game design that are already hooked, but you don't want it to have especially in when you get into sort of where sometimes you're like, I mean, it's always nice to give you an extra cookie is that fact that you need to kind of gather up I'm basically an indie game studio building a loot and shoot dungeon crawler entitled Dungeon of Nekros for the Meta Quest 2. on kind of the psychological stuff and it's heavily influenced by work Because people that are VR enthusiasts will talk about shoot yourself in your own foot For example, what game design elements drive replayability? that you did in your earlier days at id Software,
Yeah, I think the journey itself, you know, is you get this awesome cool new item and you look at the world of gaming, That it's just so much fun to play So that's been my path. But there are clearly valuable things and Dooms and whatnots, the Call of Duty multiplayers, everything that you mentioned is definitely It was always about the game feel that you're not necessarily being led around on, you know, with item progressions where, you know, it can be the enjoy- And some people just do it for thousands of hours and then here's how the weapon matrix is out. the things that have been the most important types of things of the moment-to-moment side of things. getting through the game, Here's like every item or every weapon that I'm gonna have that I'm going to do for feedback You just do it because it's awesome. You can just dump too much of one thing in. in some cases. enjoy playing for the sake of playing. by some bait that you're working to try to achieve. And it's like a chef making something that a lot of these wind up being things that people just And that, I remember when I was doing this back with arc and progression and raising tension and kind of And some people go and make spreadsheets that other types of game designers do that, you know, of all of these things. of all the different elements that you're mixing in. directorial and storytelling things that happen across it. You know, the designers that are really picking it all out. for a programmatic thing, find as many places to use it as possible, But I do think that if you go out You need to make sure that you can hear the notes to have each thing in. but you can overdo it. Make sure that anything that you can think of doing here are all the different axes that I can give feedback on. I immediately do something to tell them all right, the user triggered this here. a dozen things that you do to give feedback for it. smoke comes off and you can literally write out in the Quake 3 Arena days when I just wrote out this list of here's all the different things You wanna look through every single frame and say, that I have acknowledged their behavior. record a high frame rate video capture of everything and you have seasonings and you have to go ahead where you have all of these seasons and figure out exactly the right amount and then it comes back on the sound rolls in, I start a sound effect. I play an animation, I have a muzzle flash, anytime you're doing a game, and don't just say, well, I tell people to look at frames, you know, And I'm really not deeply read that's almost nothing. like a gun firing in a game that's, you know, "ah, dammit, I'm just gonna gut my way through this But there are a ton of aspects to that where there are, that you do intrinsically fun where there are a lot of games was always just making the actions at the end of something, But I'm much more about like you wanna be that you don't even care that much of getting to the end like Ultima Underworld and Diablo. to drive players to return to a game over and over? about compulsion loops and so on. as well as what unexplored areas in game design rather than saying it's all about the VR aspect. I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on those topics, You know, try to just do something that sliding through all this, just having a blast, such player sticky titles like Doom, What matters then is you break it all down to, And I was always much more about you know, whipping around, feeling every rewarding action, about the qualities of games that make them sticky. I've always been intensely curious the rail gun sniping somebody out I want the game to just be so much fun as you're doing it but that's never been my method. My contribution on the design side you feel may be opportunities to drive stickiness. not trip over your own feet or, you know, as well as games from my youth with some VR specific mechanic. the gambling oriented games where you get people So my question is, as a game developer, Just these intrinsically fulfilling things. Given your experience with building Thanks. on titles like Doom, because I wanna get to the end." to have been a struggle to get to it. that are pretty objectively pursuing some of those areas. in a lot of those areas where I know, And that works for some people, You know, you're giving them an attractive carrot. kind of coddling them through a lot of it
Yeah, and sometimes like you get that And I take the same approach in terms of just, you know, that I think gives the player a feed, you know, You know, it doesn't have to be the end goal that I, you know, the Fortnites and Minecrafts can be debate as well.
I like your analogy too of being a chef
Yeah. it's kind of like a choose your own adventure mindscape that you move through. So we're making an interactive experience, and I run a small game studio called Most Ancient. and how, you know, maybe it affected the NPCs Yeah. and how do I make it better and more, you know, because that's how I feel when I'm making things too. that is so much fun to use that you're just kind of, just fuller for the player, so. that were in the frame at the time. with some new toy. your reward is not a specific thing, your reward for getting here but it's your reward is getting to play more
Right. Yeah. Sorry, I'm a little under the weather, so bear with me. I have a question that's kind of on a different direction, I mean, we don't really know who the audience is gonna be
Well, I mean the nice thing That is a hard way to live though. where think about actual people like and there is no kind of royal road to success You have to kind of pick your battles well where can I go raise $10 million to build my VR game where for some non gaming things you'll find organizations don't think about abstract markets. And the hope is that you keep the lights on long enough, I wouldn't say there's great odds of success it really has to be finding a small market in the space between it. that they thought would be interesting in VR Who do you think is gonna be supporting So starting off from scratch to be making some kind of game, yeah, I don't, on a small enough scale that makes it valuable to them? on any platform is a very, very hard road that want to be involved in get some of the metaverse juice in some places, you know, Oculus or Meta You know, one of my advice that I'd give to everybody is it has to be done on a smaller scale. It's never easy to be a spinning up a small game studio you know, you don't need a publisher like in the old days at a traditional game development project and it's like, in some way. What is actually going to be the factor going through, adding in every element were small developers that were able to go do something these kind of projects as the platform sort of develop? that takes less and less total effort to be able to build. you work on your custom, you know, your passion project working on VR is where is the funding for these projects? that's not really around, you know, that they could sort of test the waters. 'cause they keep on wanting to expand it But one thing that I feel like as developers of small teams it's really hard to know if your investment of time I know there are a lot of small teams that do some work that that you can absolutely serve. a bit of feedback here and there about what they just did as support for some cases, but people that look You gotta think about really personal markets in something like that. There are places that there are grants to do development So most of the successful early VR titles for other organizations. to go ahead and get access to customers. is gonna pay back to you. So who's like publishing these things? And they've heard it's big, they want to get involved. about sort of direct user interaction platforms is that, but when you don't have a guaranteed audience, and get new people in, And then thinking about what's missing but, so my name's Veronica Graham
Yeah. it's gotta be simple and clear enough that they can pick up just looking around trying to do something, is really what you've gotta concentrate on. You know, if they've spent a minute with the people that are running these projects, that's, it's better to be very, very self-contained than to have some really rough mess You know, that ultimate distillation of everything down above that by having something that are funding the projects. And so if you can rise your scope's not going to be anything they are used to seeing an incredible slush pile you know, go to some of the people that's large scale and open. on it in seconds. of really, really mediocre stuff in a lot of ways. that would be my argument as to, you know, that do have some purse strings, That's a path that you can then start trying to leverage, because you don't have the resources or budget to do that. and concise and just have some little hint of magic in it, And if you want to impress people as they're enjoying themselves. And you know, You can see the smile under the headset to the experience and in a minute they're doing something, is really fun and like that sense of playing a feel that is really great that you've got a dozen people where if you've got something that you can onboard somebody they're like, hey, this is kind of cool. that think something is, you know, But if you've got something that has, that's gonna get through that. kind of keep the lights on by doing contract work who is going to be buying this game? And can you distill it down then into something And in a lot of cases,
So my name is Immersive Matthew, and I'm a, the story of the metaverse, about focusing on the emotional reaction, those emotions that you're just talking about how do you measure their emotional reaction? because I'm not a game developer. I see myself more than Imagineer than a developer you've probably already lost them. But yeah, it's still hard. But if there's a kernel of an idea, So my question is, I guess I'm an Imagineer as you were saying earlier. except for that dopamine part.
[Matthew] Can I have the following question to that? what you were trying to say there is focusing to get from the player, none of that is relevant to me So when you talk about game loops, but I imagine that as soon as eye tracking and I'm making a dark ride about the metaverse, that you're trying to-
Right now what developers have to do is So my question is, but they won't watch the people play it. And it's amazing how many people will spend a year building a game and they'll give it to people, where do you see the kind of data channel on what is the emotional status of our guests. so we can then craft those experiences to get, you know, becomes a feature, on that emotional reaction. which I understand, I understand that dopamine hit you need I guess is what you were trying to, And I find that really interesting what you're saying how we got to this point and where it's going. for developers like us or creators like us in the future, this hearing you talk is really resonating with me I guess the question I would have is the following one is
Now, in the future, If you never got a rise out of them, clicks the button does that and they, you know, that's going to like, take it to broad levels. If they're just playing your game They've got visions in their mind because they haven't watched other people interact with it. a grim smile of accomplishment there or just a smile of glee and they paper over everything, It's like, you know, that was kind of fun. we're gonna be able to get very clear data if you're rendering avatars and you've got that information, but watching people and like watching their faces, you know, Because for me right now, I don't get a lot of data, that you have to be able to get that. and put 2000 hours of development into something, seeing when somebody, you know you've got something this idea of using the eye and face tracking you have to literally watch people play your game. in the near future so we can get that kind of data then your game doesn't have the real magical spark And it's some of the saddest things for me to see people but they've built something that's just not good that have like poured their heart and soul into something
Yeah.
[Matthew] Yeah, okay, that's cool. than the moments of joy. that should be generally valuable of kind that would be a good idea for us to have. And catching those on your game may even be more important compared to Quest 2 in the mainstream, and disgusted with what's happening. that's going to be more effusive positive just do not pay enough attention of the second-tier and lower game developers to how people are really responding to their games. about like how much of the, you know, And we may be able to get something from that. that they just saw something amazing. on that is, but it sounds like something and it's also gonna be a different demographic where people are just pissed off probably a more reserved set of people than the, you know, We have a bunch of issues with privacy that would be quite valuable because I know large fractions you should be able to pull that out. you know, like on Quest Pro is going to be a niche product and afterwards they're like, Yeah, it was okay. I actually don't know where we are with that. So if you're running, But we've got the issue again where these, the tracking data is going to be available. they just get that smile whether it's, you know, Clearly we have to make that possible to skin an avatar I'm not aware of what the status of internal research But that seems like something to collect that kind of joy at scale, in a game when somebody, you know, which we totally should be able to do. from eye and Face Data, and they're not aware of it
Yeah, I can follow up on that too. where it's aimed at professionals and you're gonna get a thousand people played my game, So I'm probably gonna follow up with somebody internally only this many of them came back. So first of all, my name is Eric and I work for Squido. or negative about it. on an adventure game And yeah, you'll also get the negative ones But it's gonna be very hard to extrapolate from that the teenager that's got the Quest 2 about that because it seems like
On like what they're like a feedback form and getting their feedback. or this is not working. Or if they had a frustration, they were like, oh no, and they're still expressing something. it's still information I tell people you definitely want to pay attention and insensitive about something, what you need to know, but you should still listen but you have to filter it in a lot of ways so actually seeing the people play really helps with that. to everything that everybody says online. where they're probably not going to be telling you exactly because even if it's just, you know, somebody being outraged Now, you know, spinning off of that a little bit, You know, they're expressing something, can't really put their emotions on paper. But like, if they're having frustrations, You will be though as a developer they'll say like, oh, this was cool, they're not gonna be able to pinpoint it. feeling because oftentimes people is entirely different thing than just having and then just by looking at their reactions, we could see, we had a beta for a game that had like 200,000 downloads, that has a physics-based locomotion system And yeah, so just to follow up on that conversation this is not working, or I can't press these buttons, So actually like seeing people play VR okay, this is working. with just a very, very small pull of people but then recently we did a play test like for example, that you were having, I do agree because the, called No More Rainbows. or anger-inducing aspects of it. I don't know. We've made a world here in Horizons and we're also working we're in the Growth Track as well. of a happiness sentiment that we're extracting You know, it can go out and you can say, hey, to exactly what parts of it were the joy We're a development studio,
That's true
Yeah.
And they can't, this is my favorite part, this was like the worst part.
Yeah.
Yeah. (laughing) you know, it is,
Where mean internally, I mean like, I don't read the comments, that's not a great place to be. of some of our first party applications I've had that problem-
I wanted to follow up on the topic Not making version 2.0 that's completely different, replicate that and spread it out. And it's amazing how much benefit comes looking at an empty whiteboard all the things that are good, And people like to think that design is about this like leaning back, blue sky, it's like, ah, this is all terrible. If you've just landed at a random point in design space, and sometimes people will have conflicting desires, any of the positive stuff, that had some positive reaction, And if you're at a point where your product isn't getting you've probably made the wrong product. And I tell people to like follow the gradient of user value, But as soon as you find somebody And if you really rigorously follow that, and even joy from the positive things that are in there. there's a signal there and you can start kind of tacking you know, where you've got to find something. where don't get destroyed by the negatives, but take value and, you know, But if you set your expectations reasonably, and you can kind of take an anti-fragile approach there And, you know, you can't let yourself be crushed Just that's the reality of it. there's gonna be people that hate what you do. by a few negative things Or, you know, and the reviews, like, read through all of that, And if you get to the point where you're just like, oh,
Yeah, that's a good one. I built a world called Hanami
Hundred percent. but just fix everything that sucks and then find, you know, and then iteratively improving. and kind of gradient ascent towards success. why aren't we looking at the reviews which is a cherry blossom viewing world
That might be a little depressing sometimes to go, but that's what should be driving a lot of your decisions. you mentioned, conflicting designs. that are getting hammered for a lot of stuff My name's Chinami Michaels, and people are like, well-
There are, yeah. because people would try out new game modes, that the whole world is so crude, you know, which seems to indicate that it will raise the skill level of the video games that I was involved with, So how do you continue to support I've been wanting to ask about how, in first person shooters, of game modding because everything was crude. And there's also a dragon because it's VR they were basically professional development teams for them to do that and just jump into spatial 3D creation sorry I wrote down the question But then every generation after that, And so there was all this amazing creative stuff needed to be a creator It's sort of my love letter to that experience. and it got harder and harder for people to make game mods There's real issues there. for the experience. allowing 3D meshes to come in, where you can go cherry blossom viewing in Japan so I wouldn't get too long winded. anywhere at any time. the people that were still doing game modding And and also what people's expectations will be with really strong emotional stories that aren't games, Because they're coming in new users who come on and create some of the most interesting experiences I've had. the need to support new user, You know, you need to be able to have some kernel but it's so much more about like getting something out there your design over into that direction. but average it all together and sketching out a genius design, to kind of grow off of. from purely local changes. because there's no matter how good you are, I was in the Horizon Growth Track.
Yeah. without this pushing the limits on AAA quality. And the fact that these are it will look much better. But like I was saying earlier, what is this PS2 graphics stuff talking about how Horizon And you're right, that professional triangle modeling will, to have very, very large scale success such enormously successful title shows we have to make the graphics look better. after my talk, I had somebody going, you know, we are still fighting this issue where in my Twitter feed that it can still be possible next to the commercial offerings until in the later years, make crazy items and do things like that. nobody could do something ultra amazing. has some surprising benefits on the creative side of things. the graphics got more sophisticated, with also that kind of seemed relevant And like some of the things, You know, you had limits, one of the brilliant amazing thing about Minecraft is and Horizon Worlds makes it so accessible How Horizon Worlds will balance but they're strong narrative experiences that were still just operating in the amateur space the fact that having quality upper limits that the original Quake 1 was the golden age and seeing, especially Minecraft, but also now Roblox where a lot of people would look back and say it sets a maximum level. everything got better and more polished, And like, I saw this going through the whole history those new-
It's okay. = Because these are the real and pull things over here. they wanna be able to just say, views for everything. and they don't stay live in the main line. But I think that's the path. multiple seconds to decode and then, you know, it could like show these brand new full frame I, you know, and I had all these giant images that I could decode And it was amazing. There are literally millions of wonderful images. So, I'm sorry, a lot of these questions, Or if we get other things in WebXR experiences That we know we have all this data from things I had this huge view and I had a controller in 15 milliseconds a piece. And like we don't even have an app for viewing that anymore like all the feeds on all the social apps. Like I did a demo of using the video encoding technology because that's one of the things that should be like to load a 360 photo as an 8K by 4K jpeg image, all the latest frameworks and construction sets for things. So hopefully the experiences in VR can be like that. everything under the sun exists on the web by hand in Notepad. load your experience and actually try to experience it. And I think that we need some faster way to get through that So there's a lot more that I think we can do that you exist is step one. because we never got a lot of support on the 360 Photos app. to get to them, nobody finds them. or appreciation for something. And I was really disappointed that this happened because the process of getting into Horizon beautiful moments, but if it takes you multiple minutes But I do think I still hold out pretty good hope where you get a little bit of that poetic beauty that VR can have this, you know, and professionalism challenges on mobile than they do on PC. and this is objectively better. and things that we have to deal with here. where it might not have a lot in it, I can be like, okay, you do this with your Vertex, and there are some retro sites that are still done And then getting them to actually like, messy world of trying to build, And people talk about the funnel you know, is a challenge. that doesn't have the preconceived notions but they have a lot more serious kind of polish especially entertainment applications There's some things there, but I hope that it can be made so easy to get into And then there's things that are built in, you know, And then we need to make it just super easy because they're trying to be everything for everyone. and you could have a world that looks like that, to get into these as bite-sized experiences You're just talking to anybody that got a new VR headset that you don't talk to the Horizon community, of what's going to be in there. I don't know on all this dynamically for everything. In some ways you have to kind of pick a style. is a real issue. And so from creators, with what they're trying to do don't rush for the next revolution of all of these things. you'll always be able to create new things anywhere, I'm trying to tell people, it's like, but that problem of how will the community receive it but I like our current avatars. So I do keep saying of, I've had criticisms of a lot of aspects of Horizon, Take what we've got and just nail down the quality You want it to be a place for everyone, but not all design directions are reconcilable. the new Lord of the Rings environment I think that they have a huge challenge in a lot of ways So you have this strong tension, it's like, oh no, You can make like I'm not really on the Horizon team. And Horizon could just import that And I don't have an answer for this. and home looks amazing. which is a very different style than what we've got here. and the avatars look there.
Am I muted? or even worse a Horizon World because so much infrastructure I've got ideas and plans of attacks for how we could make it Oh you're mute. Yeah. 10 times faster, but they're not near term things. needs to be loaded in. But it's so much harder to do with a big WebXR experience work that people do as creators with those. we can be kind of close with the illustrations, but if we could get more of the experiences like that, And we can kind of do that with video, 360 Videos now. there's interesting stuff there and you wanna just be able to tap on it. But if you could get to the point I want Explore when you land in VR to be like a feed, where you see something interesting, It's about if things load a quarter second faster, you load that in, it just takes multiple seconds to load, where getting a user to even be aware to make this immediately gratifyingly responsive. that become easier for people to do. WebXR experiences or Horizon Worlds, you know, static models, and as fast as I could tap the buttons, But these are twitchy, low level, can cover all of that. I think that we could imagine apps, of different tastes and we have specific limitations But the design questions are hard because it's a whole world And there are paths around that. that gives you a little moment of peace You know, there is no web design guide that give you necessarily actionable stuff here. that everybody follows. let's grab the library that's used in the Facebook app And we never got that level of focus in VR Whether Horizon is a single application because there's a lot of stuff that could give these And I try to get things like that the behavior we'd like it to have is be like a website. There's everything in the world, get into the application, on the platform level so that, you know, a separate eye frame for every image whether it's things like static environments, into our mainstream applications. which would be probably the hardest of them to do that. technically optimized things where the teams, you know, where I did some demos of bringing technology into it. and finding something, that materially affects millions of users. what to do about that, the Horizon gaming community in some way. And my take was that it was on us to find some way this with your shaders and we just get it done compelling, amazing photos. the simple first time user just create something where if we're talking strictly technical stuff, sort of the easiest user-generated content. And there are a lot of really beautiful, but there's just something with the composition there I don't have like perfect answers instead of like encoding a video, I made a separate, I've done this with photos and videos even with 360 Photos, I need to get more buy in from developers. half second upload before you finally render something.
Yeah. some of those cool animations and there's some interesting I saw the mute go off and on there. Oh, I still can't hear you. It's only a few seconds to start a 360 video, Are you muted there?
Of a like processor development. we'll come back to it. Well go into somebody else here and if we hear you, Oh, okay. All right in the corner there. if you get your audio working,
Yeah.
An old timer welcome back. I talked to you briefly at Connect 6 in 2019
No, I actually think it literally will never hit the level do you think that the state of mobile processors will ever and asked you a bit about- I mean previous generation, high end GPU, CPU. of like your modern, even previous generation VR, approach what we see now in PC more powerful processors
Where we're doing a little bit of that on Quest Pro, seeing a GPU taking 700 watts now. And that was nine, We wind up being power and thermal limited and we're seeing we're pumping more power into it We didn't get really better silicon at that point. just by pushing more power into it, it had a two core processor at the time and, you know, where now they're getting a lot of the performance now we're running on an eight core processor In the next decade we might get another order of magnitude when you're four or five generations down the road. eight to nine years ago at this point. at a much higher frequency with, you know, And I think probably not. more performance than that. but it's still probably not a full order of magnitude when I first brought up Gear VR on mobile, of performance, but it's gonna be tailing off by then. You know, that winds up being real performance more stuff going on, So like the first, and we're gonna continue to get faster, it's like okay for 30% more each generation You know, we're gonna wind up getting, that compounds up a lot. I mean Apple especially has done some amazing work I was using a Samsung Galaxy S6, you know, but we're not gonna get 50 times faster. out of a relatively low amount of power. given that we're. But we know where we are with all the different nodes with getting a lot of performance I wanted to follow up now that it's 2022,
That's crazy. where the latest cutting edge nodes on GPUs that at the very highest end
Let me get one the person over here first, yeah. to floating point calculations sooner than they needed to. where that's possible in G and VR and all the things that you can do with that. But all of this really could be done back if they know what they were doing. There is some hope that dedicated custom hardware winds up. You get a factor of two by going to systolic arrays are actually going in that direction. So we could get more pixels per second out of a given watt with like 10 or 12 bit fixed precision. but I've got no signs that any of the major vendors but it's not gonna be magic. But you just slip your schedule a little bit, you're kind of saved by that (guests laughing) even in computer vision type things, and that's not really happening so much. you gotta care about performance now. But unless you start going to lower precisions on things like all the stuff that we're doing here, to be like, oh, this is not really fast enough. it's still lots of multiply ads and the GPUs are pretty good where so much of the work that we might want to do, There was a period kind of in the '90s, But it looks like we're slowly tailing down. at doing the multiply ads. You can still clearly, you're making game devs and you could make something get adopted really fast and, you know, the new processors come out, We're gonna get more, Every win is very hard fought. not your OS twice as fast as what it was. CPU faster, GPU faster, dedicated VR hardware, but it is probably never going to get to the point if something comes along and we just dramatically improve It's just mobile's, you know, the next XR2 G2 sort of in development, And that's why I keep telling people, all of our CPU stuff. I'd be the happiest person in the world So no, we're still writing a track of improvement, it's always possible we get some amazing breakthrough. where people are on the PC today. We can turn more power into heat without causing a problem to get more stuff out of it. with the headset. We just got a better cooling system on it.
And can I ask a question about the hardware? probably 16 bit floating point if they were, And so we actually do a lot of work in augmented reality It made it nice and easy to program things, but I, for things instead of things If anything, I kind of think graphics almost jumped
Hi John. I'm Ryan Canuel. if we wanted to, I run the company Petrichor in the Boston area. and so we're really excited a lot of performance was given up for that But it's gonna be trade offs, it's not going to be free. by specializing things very carefully, with Nvidia Register combiners in the late nineties everything here is rendered in shades with floating point,
Yeah, you get your 30% performance boost,
Oh man, I was counting on that. but it's not as easy as most people think
[Ryan] Sure, sure. That's why we decided to just avoid any of them And just seeing real life filtered comparable to Drop Simulator. That's a good point. But I'm a little skeptical of the value proposition It's still not on the horizon, as far as what you would do or office, augmenting the surfaces that way. the imaginary magical headset that you wear all the time out the sides or down below with that. and the rendering process, I'm not dogmatic about this, but I have yet to see the, Now there's gonna be some work environments where, to me, always a lot of the pitch was what it is myself. you know, the example of the application that's just like, You know, I do not rule it out but I don't know there are artifacts, that that's a pure good there. that you should be able to do it better. But I am totally prepared to be proven wrong. with the headset on your head moving around your house but is your real world better than the virtual world that you can put on the headset and be in a cooler place that we hope that we'll have tomorrow for people where a lot of the things are, it's like, hey, I think it is a great way to build today the apps You know, that's gonna be great. and what are some of the things that you really hope to see developers do with that? that just annotates your world around you. You know, internally at the company, you can still potentially get an order what's some of the things that you're most excited about and we could choose to call some of that back today of magnitude improvement that are sort of independently thread scheduled. I wanted to ask for that, you know, by removing some of the features that we love. about the full color pass through on the Quest Pro I, you know, see no programming through it.
Yeah. So everything is just around you and there's no need or fluid movement or what we've seen now mostly And usually they have whether teleport movement very early in the morning already. But every time we check out different games from app stores,
So I'm not aware of any robust hardware solution So if somebody says, I always want free navigation, There's the things that we know make people sick, and take the best one. which seem to help some people. just walking around a little bit with that. or software perspective that you can imagine Is there any solution for this from a hardware for the foreseeable future? which does point where Horizon should have something less to decide one of three different locomotion things. I mean we've got people that try the little vibrating things like smooth turning versus snap turning. that you do not have to move. I'm like, oh this doesn't feel good. and go to a more another approach that we wanted to make the locomotion issues on the headsets or the wrist bands, And what we think is that this is not a suitable solution with Oculus and now Meta and for all of our games through the limited quality of the cameras We were doing VR games since 2016 now working together experimenting and maybe somebody's gonna hit on something for an easy to use approach to for locomotion in our games. to like motion sickness there. is they have both and then they have different styles It's not nearly as clear as just kind of peeking down but even with the higher resolution cameras and the color, oh everybody's gonna wanna do this. we see that most of the games go different routes. it's not clear to me that that's, you know,
So I'm really not the MR booster. and you snake walk, that's a problem. like a five degree turn or something for that. that we should do globally where just any game that supports it, I had that turned on when I was doing my unscripted talk. So like Horizon has one vignette for moving I should at least have an option of doing different rates that they come in. for full color pass through and that technology than you are in real life, When I wanted that fine granularity, than the 15 degree turn. where I've got my notes going on and yeah, has its own mitigation with the vignettes,
Hi John, I'm Konrad from Fusion Play. So it's late in the evening. the user's actual head move. just go ahead and throw me into that mode. We are sitting in Leipzig, Germany. we had one big premise where you wanna do that, I think people that are excited about the future of AR rather than the present of ar of AR today that are excited the immersive virtual reality being the thing And I think that would be great but you have to submit something else to the compositor Or if you're turning your head while you're moving I really am about the, you know, many games offer both teleport and free navigation. but a strict linear move, there are things you have to deal with there. on magical AR headsets. that is the unique value for it, MR and AR, with rotation it's like everything moving around, happening on screen that doesn't correspond if it's at a constant velocity, it's only the moving around. as low or as simple as possible. towards the camera view while I'm aligned sort of objective solution for this
Yeah. and 20 different applications could then behave do some kind of vignette when you move right now. and then all games would automatically benefit from it and when you submit your buffers are submitting depth buffers right now. of different things about we could deep mine the data We could spend a lot of time on our psychological research in the exact same way. just set this extra flag when you resolve on resolve to make it really worthwhile. But I think that would be a genuine positive thing for the entire system experience to just say we handle it, So we would probably have to couple this but it would cost a good chunk of performance right now with some way of getting sub sample depth buffers to resolve the depth buffers. It really should be depth aware, not just, oh you're moving, We do have an interface for it, that huge surface right next to you it's in there in the OpenXR spec, let's fade something in from the side. But again, no applications So I would love to do that at a system level. And that entire thing should be vignetted out. there is no comfort issue doing very disturbing things. every little motion that's not head motion is going to have but as soon as you walk right up no matter how, you know, and you have a wall next to your head, if you're in an outdoor area and you've got a sky box And you would not want to have a vignette come in at all, And it could be better than anything anybody's doing now Because for instance, because it would be properly depth aware. you move around because there's no local thing moving. It's just a constant velocity. all over you and you're just looking around like that, at a system level where you would have you know, different things that you can do there, that's an objectively calculatable thing you don't really need a vignette where we could make that a sub sample depth buffer to my desk in real world But I do think that we should have some sense And, you know, And I do think there is actually a technical That would be a good thing. try out different styles that doesn't make you sick I'm gonna close my eyes when I'm doing large turns. And then I don't like how every application and you have a super large options menu where you first have 'Cause I wanted to make sure that I could be aligned of a global preference because like you say, to have just a global user preference at least. to your inertial sense. of vignettes you can activate and deactivate And our games are purely designed for VR around the way You know, if you do that, like I had that set up, set a threshold and then if any game, any experience, so it's not as big of a hit, and then just say we are going to let the user this is cool that I've got this now in my real world, you can look at anything in your view and go frame to frame, But this factor of things where there's a discrepancy if you're just moving in a linear line, where if you have a depth map, that's just freaking amazing. to submit a depth buffer, which is an extra cost. what actually makes you sick is the sense of something And I think that we should have the option of doing that between the inertial frame and your rendering frame, about this and then people just, you know, and then one vignette for smooth turning. you know, like how did this move and how did There's things that I'd like to do any motion, if it's submitting depth buffers, we do a uniform system level comfort mitigation there.
As compared to playing rather than just taking the sort of best practice of oh, as much motion sickness. and when play testing we found that users don't have where you move with your entire arms because our game uses special physics locomotion system
Yeah, that's true.
It clearly does help. do you think that moving more body parts has a positive effect on reducing motion sickness perhaps?
But when you've got a game that can cater to that, but like when I was playing Pop 1, You know, as they're moving around in their meeting. across an open field, People are really hustling around with their arms, And I remember people talking about, I mean, if we can find use for the locomotion, games with a joystick.
So I can like talk a little bit about that Gorilla Tag is one of the obvious things you can.
No, exactly. Do you think games that use more of the body,
Exactly, yeah. but when you've got some somebody motion tied to it, your brain gives you a lot more leeway. we would talk about how it's like you're walking or not only games, but maybe apps as well, you know, doing anything like that synchronized does work, gorilla walking around.
Hi, so my question will be pretty quick I'm the developer for Smash Runs on the Quest 2 and well, So it's not a sufficient solution, And that would also be a comfort mitigation of, But you can't imagine people in an office but it's probably not a universal solution you really just want to be pumping your arms to make you go faster. for a lot of people.
So I don't have them, I'm Julien, where you have artificial commission? And so Konrad asked the question then you're lucky, you've got a great situation. Are they- I suffer from severe motion sickness are affected, like severely affected as in the can't play, Do you ask these analytics? because Konrad mostly asks the same. about technical solution, et cetera. because there's, I mean there's certainly a lot for as long as I've known VR. Yeah. Another thing I was wondering is, most of the experiences
Yeah, because it's, I mean, it's a real thing. the most minutes that are in environments like that. the eye and face tracking in addition to sentiment, that I was carefully looking at the artifacts and it's kind of the perfect VR app you know, VRChat, Rec Room and Horizon where you kind of, those by far the most minutes are being spent in applications like that It's kind of moving to get to a place that you can learn. but the moving's not usually the thing. where people do move around a little bit, you have games with a little bit of locomotion like, It just plays to all the strengths and, you know, and that has the most users, There's something to be said there. The games that do have a lot of locomotion, it doesn't have kind of interaction playing to all the strengths and it winds up do you have some sort of analytics about how many people So Beat Saber is still the most successful app in VR
That would be good. after I played that for a little while because it doesn't have the motion sickness issues, this is the game that we want to play. comfort above all, that was in the early days of Oculus, they love what they've got. dialed in and that's the niche that you're aiming at And I mean it probably didn't help But that's another thing that we probably could use I mean, I played, I like to check out like how App Space that's just like gut it out, you've got to get your VR legs, start getting that sense of like, to get to your spot in the social things. But it is also a mistake to say, you know, oh, I'm not feeling good, and getting some real data about that. I wouldn't recommend catering to them as, you know, as you're target unless you know that you've got them if you move around to a position you get here, the hardcore run and gun people that are doing that in VR, moving back and forth with App Space Warp with physical objects issues.
What the company would do. to have a hard line there because there are, So it's a mistake to, you know, So it was like all the games have to be playable by the CEO and in many ways it limited what, you know. on no uncomfortable experiences. but yeah, I was feeling a little off It's a great product for them, but they aren't the majority. I mean all the millions of people that have Quest 2s, in the VR world like Beat Saber and teleport moving around But there's also just that hardcore crowd And that's including the social that winds up and that's still a problem for VR. But we have, so we have stuff that people can do I don't know exactly what data we've collected and that's a free navigation moving around thing. being the majority of everything. because they're not the majority, I played a little bit of Green Hell just a couple days ago being the most successful. and that is a big enough niche to support your product Warp was working on things. we were way over rotated on that, Yeah.
It makes sense.
[John] So what was the problem? (everyone cheering and laughing) of we're building this for fitness apps The fitness stuff really was a surprise five years ago. the space of interesting things to do there? Probably not. So if you've got a clever idea but there's a couple million people We didn't think that nobody really had that on their mind and the fitness applications sort of have that tapped out a lot of the navigation, but it's a question of like, will be able to play and enjoy, then yes, had severe motion sickness problems trying to do something that just doesn't involve by all means target them. are we, you know, have have things like Beat Saber But if you want to do something that the most people And if that addressable market is large enough, that will go do the more aggressive experiences. and he couldn't play any of those aggressive games.
Yes it is now. I don't let anybody go you into adding it successful applications that are going on.
[Julien] Thanks. and now at some of the more profitable, Yeah, you know, it's actually funny. What did you do?
Hey, just checking if my mic's working. and the possibilities there. And I don't know if that's, you know, and documentaries and life performance. that has elements of game but really wants to be that's inspired by a true story who like engaging narratives and stories but just to quickly introduce myself, and it doesn't need the motion, if it's not crucial to what you're doing. and especially with all the conversations around, So that was the solution that, you know. And so yes, cautionary tale that is always, You know, we're kind of asking this question of of a town on the Oregon coast that was washed away That's an eco fantasy time traveling adventure about where we can expand into multiplayer always seems to be relevant. especially at this point with VR where you have those people to have a version of the game play It affected my question. and figuring out how to create something creating a narrative VR experience called City of Sand. that will make sense in a moment, I think I'm gonna ask a different question And it was really because Brendan, the CEO of the company, I'm Jonathan David Martin. I'm a creative, director and producer in VR and AR
Yay. it might not be all of the people there,
You can hear me.
I switched headsets. weighing the pros that you get with WebXR into the ocean because they made And so, you know, in trying to kind of figure out
Just for everything there. that consistently holds 72 frames per second And I started doing some profiling on this to try to help them out with it. I mean, I know what you can do in WebXR. maybe on their mobile phones or other devices their own kind of best practices demo. But they've taken some real steps to engage what kind of platform we might want to consider, you know, that are really into it and trying to get other people in being comparable to a VR dedicated application. but then can also allow other people to be playing something that you can speak on a little bit, that just create an easier entry point for people, But where my team and I were talking a lot about that has a primary player in a headset, something that is broadly interesting to people is there something about WebXR the people that are mostly behind the WebXR work, that could be useful for us as we develop this further, you know, mixed reality and AR where I've yet to see a WebXR app But it's absolutely good enough to do great things. versus a dedicated app. as we're building out our world but then the trade offs with performance issues I know personally it can sometimes you know, timeframe about, you know, And my Oculus Launchpad team and I were some poor development choices. in terms of accessibility,
So I've yet to see like a WebXR app that I think does, And then it just runs terrible on mobile that they're just releasing as far as good baselines I was trying to actually get some profiles There's no reason why you can't ring all the performance that we're thinking about on a grand scale. and probably not right now, but in the two, three year, one of the developer breakout sessions to kind of get involved and check it out. for the metaverse to really.
And it seems really necessary, right, you know, a really first class job be a little bit challenging. But it's not impossible. that you could out of even a Unity, as good as a native app that's running on WebXR. And having that ability to just go to a URL, It doesn't hold frame rate everywhere. but then that's another one of the horrible things, But did you see today with the web developers, are on the PC side and they tend to just be able And the goal is to make something here that will be
Yeah. an entire web browser and all the WebXR stuff but, and that browser- instead of like having it work internally. It's not there yet, but it's not impossible. on the web messenger tab (everyone laughing) get patches taken back, you know, upstream. they've done a lot of work where they're releasing to your headset is ridiculous. I think that they've done an amazing job with, and doesn't drop a frame. it's a small team and they're like supporting It's just in general, People like the best practice (guests laughing) just a couple days ago and it's not perfect yet. and they have really been focused on user value. and the digital world, yeah. and what they're actually doing. in terms of caring about the users but that's like one of the kind of things let alone a native application. So clearly we need to get much better there, with the open source frameworks communities, to throw lots of resources at it.
Yes.
But I do always sing the praises of our browser team.
Have that permeability between the physical world, You know, they're after my own heart there
But I think somebody's to have it immediate and perhaps even more importantly you've had a very long day. when they have to actually click update for it. So there's some wins to be had there, all the subdivision services and everything there's a lot of power there. and get it. the instant updating when somebody runs a website Gorilla Tag could have been done that something that you wind up with doesn't have to be but still on a Quest 2 today you've got, And if that distribution of being able It's harder in VR because everything's harder in VR but it's not impossible. going to can make a breakout there versus any other content situation. It is like 35 million lines of code in Chrome anything that somebody could have done in JavaScript in a WebXR app realistically. you could totally do inside WebXR with the performance like a couple extra copies to get there. as a WebXR application perhaps kind of characteristics that we've got today. and directly accessible just a link away, You don't have as tight up control as you want, You know, it's just, there's so much stuff going on there. across all of this and the graphics have to go through So that's another one of these, even going through all of the web stack, as a great Oculus go game, part of me just recoils at the horror of the depth some neat stuff there. for doing all the basic stuff. avatar-rendering system that behaved basically in WebXR where I think if we had a high performance of the web stack. I think there's a real possibility for doing thing right in the middle of all of us, that we are here and then crazy WebXR But if you had this ability of just doing the basic stuff WebXR rendering thing in here that I don't wanna like pull all of Unity in. like this or like the way the avatars were in Home But eventually you want to be able to see like Meta Avatars and then you were just about let's do some crazy So I think that this, I keep an eye on this project the process for getting a URL is to like messenger yourself and log in
That's true.
Yeah. And even in App Lab or the store, And that ability to have things marketed Yeah. But you could do something that still does have and like every new user's getting it. and they're really paying attention to their users, most the same visual impact of this. So it hasn't had its breakout success yet, they can be making multiple changes a day That can be the superpower of a WebXR development absolutely state-of-the-art where you couldn't do rather than, it's like, oh we've gotta biweekly build that's going on in Horizon here efficiently where you get something like, you know,
Thanks.
Hi John. Thank you for staying on 'cause I know
So leaning on audio is a great direction Quest is as good as anything you can make anywhere. I was just shaking my head 'cause I agree. (laughing) if you're fighting that battle. So if you've got people that really understand music there's huge numbers of communities of people there. and sometimes it winds up looking kind of sad and pathetic you can probably find people that you can get to help There is this whole small game developer scene I mean I've seen some like VR shows it doesn't matter if it drops frames together to engage more audiences and uncover this magical tool and for people who feel like to lighting and there's lots of cool stuff But you do run into the graphics design. And while arguably you can do some better graphics than graphics production. they have skills and knowledge about the way people react with Unity projects. So something that really leans on the audio scape there is, as cool as real life is I think you're muted right now. that can apply really well. You don't need the same sophisticated sets of tools. You were trying to respond there. and like people that that run music shows, But the audio that you can play out of, you know, and high-end PC space and you just can't win And I've yet to see that done as well as I think it can be. So high-end audio production is also much cheaper tech forward founders who believe in the power of VR because we have graphics wise is that I'm not a tech person. their amazing ideas and lived experiences of Jimi Hendrix and Kurt Cobain everybody compares against your latest next gen consoles My name is Yolanda Barton. And I am launching an immersive storytelling experience provided an amazing solution for a historic neighborhood and other amazing musicians from my neighborhood. And now I'm using immersive technology to tell the story that there's still so many opportunities to unlock a few other people here today too. that can help shape the future of VR? Like what are your thoughts about that and how can we work I recently finished Oculus Launchpad with quite it's still this build a whole new APK and upload it with your users and reacting multiple times a day People having to update to go through that. That I actually just found that immersive technology I think what makes my love and story in VR so unique that gets updated and kind of annoys the user in Seattle that I was born and raised in. I'm curious how you feel about us non-tech, could experience it. they don't have place because they're not in tech, most magical moments so that future generations focused on really recreating some of music history's but it hasn't happened yet. about really being super embedded
So in terms of graphics design though is hard. most people learn on a PC with, to do virtual reality game development, while we have the ability of doing things in unreal, the communities are a lot smaller, and have some basic sense of composition anything entertainment related is hard that is a superpower in terms of leverage that you can get and space and what you you want to do in there because if they're just using, in order of magnitude more power, and audio production for graphics development is there is, with some basic lights and things There are broad, the benefit of being Unity based that people can learn that are not game developers
Oh no, I'm not muted. versus the super high end professional developers. that should be amazingly better than real life. and is like, well this is nowhere near
In a related question, So even if you don't have deep skills on things, Just kind of pick the things and just getting them set up in the device this part's busted, this doesn't do the right thing. to make it right because that's the important thing. It's about like, this thing that I'm working on, I'm gonna do whatever ugly thing I need to do but that can turn into a whole another career You know, the most programmers, most great programmers, You know, you've gotta be able to find enough people But in the end, you can learn anything. and how they react and find out how to make it better. really, really watch your users watch what they're doing because they're trying to accomplish something. that people could spend their time in the entire world. if you really pay attention to your users, you know, that are going to be interested in this, grab them quickly, but I'm going to, you know, look at what you've got there. It's not about having the skills watch them, watch their facial expressions. There's a trillion dollars of content don't let them fall out, you know, out of the edge. finding a niche where it's worthwhile even if you don't have the skills, that is targeted for all sorts of other people. because you are competing against all of the other ways and all this other amazing free stuff in many cases, And so much of that does come from, for somebody to say, I choose not to spend my time It's back to that funnel in the fish hooks. but there are people out there, it's certainly better than it was a decade ago. or VR specialists that have knowledge It can be problematic for VR though, where people have the skills necessary to build things. and not everyone has the right skill sets But like I've said a couple times though,
So just staying in Unity is, you know, you know, it may be trying to just do some ugly awful hack The information's available, you can learn it, and writing a beautiful architecture. to go, you know, write an application. how to do modeling or audio production there's so many errors and I'm just wondering like,
Yeah. I mean, if you get anybody that tries through the whole process of like, oh my God, I just built this and I can walk around it, You have to kind of decide where you draw the line
Thank you.
Thank you. and set up a structure and fill in all the fields But for that first creation, there's probably some value there. It's slow going on this, but the browser works well. You know, this is cool. It just hasn't really surfaced yet. about, you know, as a programmer, more involved afterwards. I mean the, it's just, it's not good. you know, learn how to do something in Unity. This is amazing. and then call this and, you know, and learn how to use a modeling program, There are some development environments I mean, I talk internally just about our APIs into some of the development stuff, But, you know, like I was saying in my talk though, and then how do I import that into an application That's the type of thing where there should be better paths this is amazing. Because it's a hard road if you have to go which will, you know, somehow get into VR. that you could make this easy path to it I'm gonna model something in Blender (everyone laughing) what is the ideal Like what should that look like? because our development, it does suck. I mean, it really does make me sad every time I sit down I mean, in many ways for doing something, And then you're just like, oh, this is terrible. The form, the documentation, that kind of stuff. you know, joyful development environments. like to balance these new features, which is great, You know, then you can go ahead You know? that is a large chunk of the battle. for like export to WebXR or something all of these are just things to help you with a lot of new developers provide the user value. to build something native, it's so horrible. where you're just like, oh, it's so much fun to work on this if you're getting that huge reward reaction of like, so much effort has gone into making it easy for people to deploy the APKs is so challenging. I don't over index on like what you have or don't have. skills, technologies, tools, I teach VR at a university and so I'm working and they're using Unity and Oculus if you learn it in depth. But you should be about your user experience, probably starting in Horizons, it's all out there. to build sort of their first VR creation in Horizon. that's causing them a problem there.
it's not joyful. this function just did what I wanted, it made me happy. So, you know, with the Quest Pro announced today and there are like mitigations and paths And it's rare to see these joyful APIs or, It's not joyful. sometimes you have what I call a joyful API that's out of the frying pan into the fire.
All right. Maybe I wanna learn some skills to be able to do something Like there are paths for WebXR inside VR for their work or for meetings and whatnot. I need to provision a handle from here that people have around it. this idea of like, well, let's just throw it all away is sort of this gateway for so many people. probably working in Horizon is a good idea. (guests laughing) where you don't have they start off writing the most awful hacks It's like, Oh, I'm creating something. These are terrible things, the deployment process.
Yes, it is not, It's a problem. where you're just like, I love this function, You know, it's better on the PC it's to focus more people into, you know, where you've got some comparative advantage on all of it. Then you have to have people learn brand new things. You know, it's like that may be learning a new skill, to make some of these things better.
Okay. Yeah. If it turns out that you eventually have to learn And then every time there's an update, to just get rid of the warp So, I mean, I hope that it can get better. for being able to build something that makes users smile.
No problem. How far or how close maybe do you think we are, how do we create a good development support? and that's not mobile VR development. or whatever is your non-skill for your title, And if we can get some of that just works well I guess I can go with the question. spending more time in VR and doing what they need to do And then you have so many things, which is like, oh, I'm in a 3D world. I can duck down and I can look over it, And you can find out early on whether that and create something new, You know, just like Minecraft set a lambda up over here for this. but at least they're known terrible things
Yeah, I was just adjusting my headset are you okay, John? (laughing) or maybe how close do you think we are into like being able that I wound up accidentally clicking the power button.
That's actually getting pretty close How close or how far do you think we are? but I should be able to just bring up browser to like multitasking VR where I can hop into meeting, So yeah, so how far do you think, go do that. Okay.
That's true. if everybody's textures went down one level of detail I want it to be as fast as your phone. they've got the skill sets necessary awesome new technology to work there but I'm hoping that we can get that kind of cool, They may hate working inside the Android system, because yeah, that's what I want. while I had browser, And like I was saying, and I was here and I wanted to bring up browser, to do some of these things. But that requires really deep integration I hope that some of our refugee OS developers that are, But what we really need is a systems level resource support with the graphics driver and the, you know, But it's possible. I'm still saying we should make that an experimental option and it's gonna be a bad user experience. you can bring up browser, it should work. so that it would be fine if I was in a Quest 2 like, you know, if you're at Beat Saber, the OS and the GPU interrupt managements on things. without having to like, take off my headset for doing things like paging out GPU textures something's gonna get out of memory killed Now I want to bring that down to all of the headsets, well if you have Resident Evil up, but so many key people bring up the things like, it's using all of the memory of the Quest. and put it back on, go to my computer, go do this, so that people that are in lightweight apps, sort of the infrastructure necessary to let that happen. that we can have multiple apps resident. We've been for a couple years building up I'm not a hundred percent confident to work, general multitasking in my Quest Pro while I'm in Horizon here on a Quest Pro. where I am tempted to try it here, have my calendar pop up, or like just doing If you try to bring browser up, And we've got enough extra memory on the Quest Pro
And it was awesome. that's a perfectly reasonable thing to do, where 30 second launches are not okay. at least inside any application, that would clear up enough memory for all of that to happen. It needs to be better than that. there was a point where that popped up I keep harping on this speed It was resident
Something up and you know, to just pop up and immediately be there. you click that it thinks about it. It's like hey Meta, bring up browser oh, this is just amazing. to pop up the Anytime UI, But that, you know, I remember thinking it's like, when you hit the Oculus button at the time I want this ability instantly pop it up. And that's what I want all of these multitasking applications to be. in like 15 milliseconds. It needs to be as quick and intuitive.
Or more yeah.
No, I don't think it's holding us back at all. Like the things that VR and AR in the future You want it to feel like you're in a movie. I don't have that enabled on on my system here, because he doesn't want to sit there making conversation twiddling his thumbs but that's what you want be able to do and you want it as fast as I can think it. have it super responsive or talking about using the voice over here I'm checking, it's like, okay, and all of that. controls or whatever. I want you to just be able to, you know, I click this button and it is there And now it takes like a half second or, you know,
I agree. I agree. you can't imagine Mark demoing this in a keynote
I mean, at the OS level, You want it to be a superpower. to get the resolutions of the depth.
Okay.
Yeah. everything renders to a surface. you know, all the fidelity of some of the things
All right well, Sounds like we're winding down here. I definitely want to thank the super passionate developers that joined us today, And that has nothing to do with Android and everything to do should be giving us. And I just think that means so much. That's actually a pretty good path for us in most cases. Or maybe a hindrance? and some Android apps take 20 seconds to start up. to be movie user interfaces and definitely a big thank you to John for taking time We have to hack around Android as a harness it's doing your thing.
As quickly as you want. While so many of our features would be, it's like, oh, It's really just that some Android apps could start up We project surfaces into VR. for joining us at Meta Connect 2022 Anybody want to get.
All right.
Right. All right, cool, thank you. I think we've come to the end of our Q&A today. but that's not any kind of a big factor for us.
[John] It was good talking with all of you. with how the developer made the application.
Appreciate it. So thank you to everyone Something else happens with a sharp snap of acceleration Do you think that maybe Android is in favor of that? in a half second Or do you think that Android.
Appreciate it.
Thank you.
Thanks John.
Good job. where you're just like, it's there, and we look forward to seeing you next year. while this initializes you want everything Like we used to have this point where several versions ago, is right forward interface is over, to answer these questions.
Thank you John.
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